Welcome to Episode Three of the Stepping Sideways Podcast. This week I’m talking to a good friend of mine, Carly McDonald.
Coming from a family of small business owners, Carly started Novar Music Learning Centre when she was pregnant with her first child. More than a decade later she is running a successful music tuition business across multiple locations in Adelaide.
Each episode I’ll be talking with another woman about her experiences in life, business and the workforce.
The theme of the podcast is inspired by Sheryl Sandberg’s international bestseller Lean In. I felt quite confronted when I picked it up for the first time. Women juggle so many things in the modern world and sometimes we need to take some steps sideways to allow us to lean in.
Please Enjoy!
Links from the Podcast
Lean In, Sheryl Sandberg
Wild, Cheryl Strayed
Tatum Woodroffe:
Hello and welcome to Stepping Sideways. I’m Tatum Woodroffe, Creative Director of Hardwood Digital. Stepping Sideways is a podcast dedicated to exploring the roles of women both in business and the workforce. Each episode I’ll be talking with my guest about their experiences, their trails and triumphs, and all the stories they’ve collected along the way throughout their career.
Welcome to Stepping Sideways. I’m Tatum Woodroffe and I have Carly McDonald with me today. Now, Carly is a mum of two and she runs her own music business, Novar Music. Carly actually started out as a commerce graduate and she is going to share some of her story today. Talking about the shift from marketing into music. It’s obviously a big change, and she’s quite experienced in business.
How long have you had your business for, Carly?
Carly McDonald:
11 years now.
Tatum Woodroffe:
11 years? I know that she has lots of great takeaways to share with us. Carly, I’ll let you introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about what it is that you do.
Carly McDonald:
At the moment I run a music education business. It’s got a few different areas that we work in. One is Novar Music and that is instrumental tuition, private instrumental tuition for students, primarily after school. That’s the big part of what I do. I teach 40 students a week myself and then have other teachers that work with us to teach other instruments and also the piano.
I’ve also developed other parts of the business, so I do education for other teachers as well. I guess the professional development circuit for music educators, and the editor of The Piano Teacher which is an online platform, but it’s also a hard copy magazine, a few things.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Excellent. Very accomplished, that’s for sure. Now, tell me, imagine you’re 15 again. How did you imagine your career then? Now, the reason that I’ve chosen 15 is because that’s often at high school where people will start thinking about our future career, having to choose subjects and where we’re going.
What were your thoughts then?
Carly McDonald:
I was always really attracted to the humanities subjects but did a few of the more hardcore sciences, I guess, and I always anticipated that I would be working in big business, working corporately, I guess. That’s the path that I went down. I was studying music all through that time but it wasn’t something I took seriously, as something I’d have as a career.
My family’s all in small business and that was a very, that was just the way I grew up, was literally in the small business world. Holiday times, I’d spend times in the offices at six or seven, I’d make name tags for all the people at work to have on their desk, and clean the stationery drawers. I graduated to stamping envelops and ruling up the ledger books.
Then, when I was 15 I was pursuing lots of different things in debating and public speaking and I was doing quite well academically, and just thought I would be going to university to study something, but music wasn’t on the radar that much. I think at some stage
I thought I was going to be the Prime Minister of Australia as well, or the president. I’m fairly certain that was on the radar.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Well, there’s nothing stopping you. You can still be the Prime Minister.
Carly McDonald:
I’ve decided it would have to be a president, but I also value my privacy too much.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Ah, of course. It’s funny. In the last episode, I actually had a conversation about parents. My mom used to, that was the thing, she always anticipated that perhaps I would be the first female Prime Minister of Australia, but I was pipped at the post there.
Carly McDonald:
Yes, and I think that it’s nice that it was someone else that did it. There’s so much that you lose in such a massive public service role and I much too much enjoy my downtime.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, I can absolutely appreciate that. Fast forward to now, can you share the highlight reel of your career with us? Because obviously you did go to uni and you studied marketing, and then you commenced your career in a role in that field.
Carly McDonald:
Yes. I was at uni and while I was doing my commerce degree, I’d previously been in Japan for 12 months after I finished high school. I did an exchange and then deferred my degree and came back and commenced it.
While I was at uni, there were some scholarships and positions. It was like a transitionary position. They take you on while you’re at uni and when you’re a graduate, you continue working for them. That was with a company called Ausbulk which is a grain handling company that’s changed names many times over the years. I would go in one day a week while I was at uni and do some work with them, and then when I graduated I started with them full time.
I was doing project management for them, lots to do with change management, and also some marketing things, and internal marketing, selling the change to people in business.
Ended up doing some really interesting customer and competitor analysis for an international branch of the company. That was all really fun and stuff I really, really enjoyed, but while I was at uni I also started teaching piano as a part time job with my teacher, and I really loved it. I got something from it that I didn’t get from the marketing stuff.
Fast forward a little bit, I fell pregnant with my daughter and I decided that while I was on maternity leave, I’d see if I could turn this music teaching into a thing, and I got someone to come and teach with me for the extra students that I couldn’t teach, and that’s how it all started. I registered the business properly and started running it as a business, and then I went back after my 12 months of maternity leave and they put me in the filing room and that was the most discrimination in that environment that I’ve ever felt.
It was a decade ago, so I hope things have shifted forward a bit since then, but I went back actually six months pregnant with my son and so the lady whose job it was that I was coming in to do, she was 12 weeks pregnant and didn’t want to be in the filing room, so they put me at six months pregnant into the filing room, and then I took 12 months again after that, when I had my son, and continued to grow my music teaching business at the time.
Then, when I went back to go back properly from that maternity leave, they tried to put me in a position. It was very inadequate for my skillset. They wanted to put me in oc health and safety, and a very menial role, and it wasn’t something that was going to work for me.
My music teaching business had got to the point where it could support what I wanted to do in my own teaching enough, and it was slowly building with other teachers and creating a bigger business, I guess. I thought I’d just give it a crack and see how it went.
That’s how the business initially came from a sort of part time job to, “Okay, this is it. I’m going to do that.” Then, over the years it’s been a natural progression for the business. I’ve really let it grow and build organically. Every time I’ve tried to really push the business, I’ve had to push for quite a long time before I’d seen growth, and it can get really frustrating when you’re trying to grow it and not seeing the return for your energy investment.
During those times, I was also building in the background all of the processes and procedures for the business as a whole, and that meant that when it did happen, when it did start expanding, then all of those processes were already ready to go in the background, and could manage it.
Then, about three years ago, I was asked by the publishers Hal Leonard Australia, if I would do some speaking for them and be an ambassador for the Piano Adventures series in Australia, and that was through my involvement in online forums and discussions and what they saw and that’s how that ball started rolling. That’s the highlights of how I’ve got to where I am now.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, obviously the catalyst for that big shift for you was you had already had the beginnings of your music business in place, and then going back into the workforce after having your children, you were not I guess realistically treated fairly. What sort of advice would you have for someone else in that situation?
Carly McDonald:
Well, it was really unpleasant what I experienced going back into the workforce, and I didn’t have the energy as someone with little kids to fight that. I had an alternate means to make things happen for myself, so I just let go of the stuff of working for a corporation, and invested in building my business.
I didn’t have paid maternity leave so we had had to learn to live on less when I had gone on maternity leave anyway, so then I had the opportunity to build my business during that time without an expectation that I would have a full time income. I think that’s really unrealistic when people start small businesses, they think that in the first year they’ll turn over and make a profit, and it’s just so disappointing when that doesn’t happen.
The expense of running a small business alone, I don’t think in the first year that it’s feasible to start turning profit. That’s if you’re investing in the business and building it up. I think not having those expectations and being able to start out small and I really worked hard to keep my overheads down.
The way I set the business up meant that I didn’t have massive rent that I needed to pay and that helped because I didn’t have to have all that cash flow happening all of the time. I guess in that position, I’d say to people that you’ve got to make decisions for yourself and take a leap of faith that back yourself and do it, and then give it a fair crack because if it hadn’t have worked, then I had a good skillset to go back into the corporate sector and keep on keeping on.
I also found that I didn’t like having to listen to another boss. Maybe for myself, going through the red tape of a big business, they’re not very flexible or dynamic, and that started to annoy me.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah. I can absolutely, that resonates with me a lot.
Carly McDonald:
What I love about running my own business is the flexibility that I have, the decisions that I can make for our family because I have a flexible schedule, which at times isn’t so great. Like, working at 11 o’clock at night or something like that, but it does mean that I can pick the kids up from school a couple of days a week and I can be there at home and get other things organised as well.
In saying that, now that the kids are at school and they’re doing much more, they’re getting a bit older, I don’t have as much flexibility because I’m working far more.
I work full time now, essentially, it’s just that the hours are a bit non-traditional.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Flexible.
Carly McDonald:
That’s what it is. It is super duper flexible, and there has to be some rewards for running your own business, and flexibility’s one of them.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, even if that does mean split shifts sometimes.
Carly McDonald:
Absolutely.
Tatum Woodroffe:
I guess having started your business when your children were quite small, you’ve managed to sustain it and grow it over time which is amazing.
I see lots of women who are starting out in their new businesses in a similar position to what you were, where they’re trying to establish something for themselves away from I guess being an employee so that they can have that flexibility, but in reality it’s hard work. I mean, I’m one of those people myself.
I have children but they’re not small, and they’re not babies anymore, so like yours, they can look after themselves to a degree which is great.
In terms of starting out when you do have really small children, what do you think perhaps the secrets to your success have been? What were some of the biggest barriers that you had to overcome?
Carly McDonald:
I initially started just in one school and I started as a primary teacher and I had another teacher come in and start with one session. It started really, really small, and over time, I’ve just organically grown it.
Cold calling schools to get a new place is ridiculously difficult, but it’s always been who we know and they like what we do in one place, and they come across a problem and then they know that we can solve that for them, and that’s how we’ve got each new venue that we teach in.
Then, one of the successes I think of the business is the level of personal contact they have. It’s a very hands-on business. I do most of the customer contact still and over time, I’ve done all the jobs until it’s got to the point that I can’t do all of them anymore.
I think one of the secrets to it has been doing as much as you personally can do until you just can’t take on more and that’s when you’ll probably know that you need someone for a while to help, until you get about to doing it, rather than putting on too many people to start with and then not being able to follow it up, I guess, and have the cash flow to keep it going.
One of the successes has been slow, organic growth, and it’s just built over the years. Now we’re probably sitting at close to 180, maybe 200 students, and we have 12 teaches at the moment who work with us and we teach a range of different instruments, strings, woodwind, piano, guitar, voice, and it’s adapting our service to each venue that we’re in and what their needs are.
That’s the benefit of small business, is that you can be dynamic and you can be responsive to the customer needs, but the biggest hurdles have been having the time to do things and doing them to the standard that I expect of myself.
You know, earning a full time income as well, if that’s what you have as your number one goal, which absolutely you should be expecting to earn income, but not let it be unrealistically large or soon.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes. That’s a really good point.
Something that’s really interesting that I’m going to ask you about is the fact that you do have people working for you. Are they working on a contract basis or are they employees? A mixture of both?
I think for people who are growing their business, the idea of bringing in employees can be quite scary because all of a sudden you’ve got somebody else that you are responsible to as well.
Carly McDonald:
Absolutely. It’s something that we, in the music industry it’s quite transient and people work multiple jobs in multiple places and do lots of different things. It’s just the way of the industry, so we have people work with us on a contract basis, so we do all of the administration and the handling student clients, and dealing with schools, and the teachers get to do what they love the most which is teaching.
I’ve found that it really works for our teachers because they don’t have to do the parts of the job that they would have to do otherwise that they don’t like, which is the business side of it, and the administration. That works for them, it works for the schools because it’s coordinated and it’s not them doing it, and it works for me because I enjoy that stuff.
I do have people working for me and it is on a contract basis.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, excellent.
Carly McDonald:
We keep close tabs on the industrial laws because we want to make sure we’re always doing the right thing, and we try really hard to pay our contractors as well as possible so that we get good people who stay with us. Actually the first teacher who started with me 10 and a half years ago, she’s still with me now.
We do our best to make that happen, and when you take on people, the managing people side of what you do takes up time and what you gain in having someone come to do tasks or a role, you do lose some of the efficiency by then having to also people manage. That is always something you have to factor into, whether or not you’re taking people on.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, but I imagine that your experience in corporate life left you well prepared for managing those elements of your business.
Carly McDonald:
I did do some HR as well when I was there, so the theoretical side of it yes, I guess.
Coming from a small business background, I have got a lot of family who I can also call on to ask when things aren’t going okay and whenever you’re dealing with people, there’s going to be times where things don’t go okay. We’ve had some doozies this year (2016) and at times, it’s just so frustrating and you feel like you’re banging your head against a wall because you’re trying to create something and you’re trying to do the right thing by everybody and it just feels like it’s going nowhere.
That’s small business. Sometimes it’s awesome and other times it’s really, really hard work.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Swings and roundabouts.
Carly McDonald:
Absolutely, but they’re my swings and roundabouts, and that’s what I really like about it.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Can you tell us about a time when you’ve looked at what you’ve achieved and just had a complete “holy cow” moment that’s taken your breath away?
Carly McDonald:
I had one of those moments this year (2016).
My husband was made redundant at the end of last year and it got to the point where I was the sole income earner for the family and we could do it and manage it, and I could be the one supporting the family for the first time since I started my business and I had to work really damn hard and really crank up what I was doing but it was possible.
That was a “holy cow” moment. That was a “Look what I’ve done.” Like, I could get a job and go and work for someone else and possibly earn more than I do, but I’d also be taking other things along with that where this is something that. “I’m generating this,” and “I’ve done this,” and “How cool’s that?” That was a really nice moment of, “I’ve done this. It’s doable.” That was really nice.
Tatum Woodroffe:
It is fantastic.
Carly McDonald:
Another moment would probably be again earlier this year. I was presenting at a conference. The conference was a couple of years ago, the first one I ever did, and I’d been asked back to speak at the same conference but this time as the keynote, so keynote speaker.
I got to speak about the idea of national curriculum and how it’s being implemented and what’s actually missing, and how the students are slipping through the cracks with this ideal curriculum, but then the reality of implementation and it’s not serving the children and that’s who it’s supposed to be serving. Being able to talk about something that I’m really passionate about, and being given that forum to do it, that was really nice, too.
There’s been a few things this year, even though it’s been really tough, it’s also proving quite fruitful.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, which is excellent.
I know that, correct me if I’m wrong here, but in your industry you’re a little bit unusual because you are not, well, you come from a background that is not pure music?
Carly McDonald:
Yeah, yes. It’s very unusual to be in this instrumental teaching industry and not be a primarily an instrumentalist. I am, I’m a pianist, but I’m not by degree, I suppose.
Normally, you’ll find people in this position, they’ve probably gone and done a music performance degree or they’ve done a music education degree or even studied, done their performance degree and then done Dip Ed or something equivalent to teaching classrooms or that kind of thing.
It’s really unusual to be coming to the music education industry with a commerce degree. What I guess I can provide benefits to get rid of the things music teachers don’t like, and I have the skills to do that stuff.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, win/win. We love win/win. A win/win/win even, because your students win, too.
Carly McDonald:
Yeah, that’s true.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Then, can you tell me what inspires you to keep growing and moving forward in your business?
Carly McDonald:
A couple of weeks ago I wasn’t feeling like that, I wasn’t feeling inspired at all. It was one of those funk moments where you think about running your own business and you think, “It’s all just really hard,” and, “Maybe I should just go and work for someone else,” and I was having a conversation with a teacher who’s worked with me the longest, Kristen, and I said I just had to keep reminding myself is that the reason I do this is to provide really good quality music education to children, and I think that is a really fundamental thing in our society and for children.
They learn so much with music outside of music, and I want to be able to provide an alternative in the market to what’s already there, and that is what one of my drivers is.
The other one is I don’t think anyone would employ me now. I feel like I wouldn’t be a model employee and I’d probably question too much stuff.
Tatum Woodroffe:
I’m certain there’s some organisations that would value that highly.
Carly McDonald:
No doubt, but I really enjoy the flexibility that I have working for myself and if I want to keep doing that, then I need to keep working really hard to make that happen.
I like the idea of being able to make a difference and in children’s education, I think that’s really important and really valuable, and it can create lots of change for lots of people, in a lasting sense for the rest of their life. That’s what motivates me, that inspires me to keep going when things get tough.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Excellent. Now, last big question, obviously this podcast for me was inspired after reading “Lean In” by Sheryl Sandberg. It took me two tries to get started on it, because I found it very confronting the first time I picked it up. Have you read it?
Carly McDonald:
I’m still at try number one. I have it, it’s one my nightstand, but it’s gathered dust for a little while, and I think I need to. I think it was also quite confronting when I picked it up the first time. It was really a while ago now that I started it, so I think I might need to pick it up again.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yes, because I mean the experience that you had in that transition phase with coming off maternity leave and going back onto maternity leave I think is certainly one of the big issues that is addressed in some way in the book, but it is a really hard thing because as females, we are juggling our maternal instinct but also our desire from an intellectual perspective to have a career and grow a career, and for me,
I think that’s why I found it so confronting because sometimes those two halves of us are quite at odds with one another.
Carly McDonald:
Absolutely, and that’s something that I struggle with frequently, and having that, “You should do less, spend more time with the children, be a good mum,” those kinds of expectations and pressures, and I think that by being a good role model I am being a good mum, and I think I should read the book.
Yeah, but that is certainly something that I find I’m grappling with frequently, is how much is me being selfish and wanting to pursue those goals and how much is enough for my kids.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yep. I know what that feels like, absolutely, yeah.
Carly McDonald:
I should read the book, right.
Tatum Woodroffe:
I think it’s probably a book that everybody should read, both men and women, as a point for consideration.
I’ve definitely put it on my reading list for my kids, but also thought that it’d be a valuable book to give to their teachers this year because I like to give their teachers books at the end of the year.
Carly McDonald:
Oh, that’s a big, lovely idea. I might take that one on, too. It’s a bit different for them than a box of chocolates.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I really value everything that you’ve shared with us, because it’s been very enlightening for me and for the audience, too.
You’ve got a story that’s really interesting and I think that there’s a lot that different people can take away from it on different levels. Yeah, so before we go, I have five quick questions. The first one is iPhone or Android? I’m just running a poll here.
Carly McDonald:
iPhone.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, iPhone. You’re three for three. I’m waiting to have a fellow Android user join me.
Carly McDonald:
I’ve got an iPhone, but I’ve got a normal laptop, so the only Apple product I actually have is the iPhone.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Ah, there you go. I’ve recently acquired a Mac and just quietly, I don’t mind it, now that it’s got a mouse.
Carly McDonald:
Oh, you’ve got a dark side. I bet you’re running a different operating system on it.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Well, yeah. It’s about to have a little bit more of a makeover to fix that. Now, what is your most highly recommended book? That can be any book.
Carly McDonald:
Oh, goodness. I read quite a lot but at the moment I’m more into reading airport novels because that’s about what my brain capacity is by the time I sit down to read.
Tatum Woodroffe:
That’s good.
Carly McDonald:
I’m reading another one, oh goodness. I’ve just finished, “Wild” by Cheryl …
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, Cheryl Strayed.
Carly McDonald:
It was good to read about the trekking and those kind of things, and I read a lot for work based, education. I’ll have to have a think about that one, get back to you.
Tatum Woodroffe:
All right. What’s your most useful productivity tool or tip?
Carly McDonald:
Lists.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Lists?
Carly McDonald:
Lists. Be organised, and write stuff down. My brain is so full most of the time that new information comes in and then I’ve got to try and get onto it pretty quickly. I find if I write it down and I keep both a paper diary and an online diary. Online diary’s for the bigger stuff, family based things, but then weekly I keep my own personal organised schedule.
That keeps things really productive when I’m going to be doing things, and I can also see the week in front of me and not be unrealistic about what I can actually achieve.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, that’s a big one. Actually, something that you said earlier on that I love is that you’ve developed processes in your business. That’s just such an important thing.
Carly McDonald:
Yeah, and for small businesses particularly, you’re normally really good at what your core skill is, and really, really crappy at running a business.
That is one of I think the biggest downfalls of small businesses, is they don’t take heed with how much time it takes to run the business and in order for it to run smoothly and enable them to have time to do their core skill, they need to streamline that stuff and make sure that they’ve got cashflow.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Processes are an asset to a business. That’s what puts the value into the business because if you’ve got a process for it, then you can outsource it and somebody else can do it.
Carly McDonald:
Yeah, absolutely.
Tatum Woodroffe:
What’s the best advice you’ve ever been given?
Carly McDonald:
To be tenacious, I think, and to query things and keep going. Keep putting one foot in front of the other.
A lot of my small business advice and experience really comes from the people I know who run small businesses and one piece of advice I got a while ago was to look at my business and see how it was serving me, and was it what I wanted, and what was my role in my business, and is that what I wanted, because after you’ve been running it for a while, sometimes it pays to look what position you’re in with it. They’re probably the best pieces that I’ve been given.
Tatum Woodroffe:
That’s all good advice. Last one, how do you celebrate your career wins? Not enough?
Carly McDonald:
Not enough. No one’s there to pat you on the back when you run your own business. You’ve just got to keep on going.
Normally we’ll go out for a really nice dinner, do something nice like that, and celebrating with my family. They see how hard I work and little things I do, and the kids are getting better over time at appreciating it, so they like the celebrating times, too.
Tatum Woodroffe:
Yeah, celebrating is good. Thank you so much for joining Carly and I today. I’ll be back again soon with my next guest. Make sure that you subscribe so that you never miss an episode.
